|
Post by Marinated on Feb 21, 2013 11:14:56 GMT -8
Yasmi that's interesting. Crazy was the person I checked toDay and it said nothing happened to her. I checked her because I thought you were going to check Luv . I thought maybe the roleblocking was my doing, because when I pick up someone's power, they don't get to use it while I have it, but the timing is off. If you had been able to track/watch her, I would have known because you're a Night action and mine is the following Day. In post 858 you said you could use the power you found, but you didn't say that you also blocked the original user. Are you now saying that your role does that too? As for you being nervous I guess it comes to me expecting one kind of playstyle and seeing another from you that’s all. What playstyle did you expect to see? I would like to know what reason did you have for telling us so late in the day that your vote was stolen? I already answered this in post 876.
|
|
|
Post by yasmi on Feb 21, 2013 11:18:10 GMT -8
Yasmi that's interesting. Crazy was the person I checked toDay and it said nothing happened to her. I checked her because I thought you were going to check Luv . I thought maybe the roleblocking was my doing, because when I pick up someone's power, they don't get to use it while I have it, but the timing is off. If you had been able to track/watch her, I would have known because you're a Night action and mine is the following Day. I was blocked, I dont think it has anything to do with who I checked. I cant reproduce the message that I was sent but it said something along the line that my powers were suppress. This makes me believe that I was.the target not CrazyMg.
|
|
|
Post by Luvessy on Feb 21, 2013 11:18:17 GMT -8
Another term for it (besides logical fallacy) is loaded question. It can also be a bit of an entrapment.
|
|
|
Post by Marinated on Feb 21, 2013 11:39:48 GMT -8
firebolt says she checked Crazy and was told nothing happened to her, whilst yasmi says she also used her role on Crazy, so I'm sort of forced to believe firebolt and yasmi aren't both rogues. I believe we're facing one of the following scenarios:
- firebolt is a rogue, yasmi is innocent. firebolt is lying about having checked Crazy/Crazy not having been targeted by a role in order to cast doubt on yasmi's roleclaim and get her lynched toDay.
- yasmi is a rogue, firebolt is innocent. Rogue yasmi fakeclaimed to save herself and named Crazy as her target last night, but was unlucky in that firebolt also chose yasmi. This would point to rogue Crazy too, and as I believed Crazy was a rogue before the roleclaim kerfuffle, I'm leaning towards this scenario.
- Both yasmi and firebolt are rogues and this whole thing is a genius win-win scheme for them, because whichever way the town votes, one of them ends up with pretty solid FoI. If this is the case, we're facing a bold and genius rogue team and may as well line up to die right now because damn I will be impressed. I doubt this scenario, though.
It makes no sense for them both to be innocent, because firebolt would have gained yasmi's power for toNight.
So I'm leaning on rogue yasmi, rogue Crazy and innocent firebolt, but I will still push a lynch through on firebolt if the town goes that way. I would also like to see marinated lynched, still, especially as she called me a nefarious villain. :[ The first scenario doesn't make sense at all. If Yasmi is telling the truth about being blocked then what FB says about Crazy is irrelevant to Yasmi's status. Why would she, as a rogue, say anything at all, especially as Crazy could have counterclaimed her in the event she actually was affected by an action? The second scenario doesn't work out either as Yasmi claimed to be blocked before FB said anything. And how does it point to rogue Crazy? So all this just looks like an excuse to vote for Yasmi as your next post more or less admits.
|
|
Twopatch
Cabin Person
Likely to be eaten by a Grue
Posts: 92
|
Post by Twopatch on Feb 21, 2013 11:54:40 GMT -8
To confirm I awoke this morning without a vote. LuvsIm not sure Im comfortable with your portrayal of tunnel visioned 2p. If you look back through my posts, I've offered thoughts and suspicion on a number of individuals, some I felt we're innocent ie FB, Riss and sets, I have raised concerns over Cala, Mari, Yasmi and Tae and gone back over duck following Riss flipping rogue. Luvs, you argue that I have voted exclusively for Tae and you are right, My disclaimer (subject to change) was a direct addressing of last game where the town leapt to the conclusion that because I voted early, that I was done for the day. I strongly believe voting early benefits the town, and I will continue to do so should I have a sufficient grasp in my mind of where I may go. If someone becomes more suspicious during the day, or I am required to help secure a lynch, I will do so long as I have reasonable suspicion. No such scenario has occurred in the 3 days I voted Tae. My argument on Tae was neither light nor unfounded, my suspicion grew each day. I remained confident and so my vote remained, specifically with the final vote on Riss. Most of my reads come from deadline proximal actions. Rogues are always in the mix around deadline so that is where I cast my eye, Id urge the whole town to be fast and open with votes, it limits deadline madness. We're at a sufficient point in the game to all have our targets now, so why wait till deadline every day to vote? CalaAs far as the capture of Riss was concerned, I am strongly of the mind a rogue voted in there. 8 votes on a rogue. that leads me to believe that now Tae was not, Cala is most likely to be rogue based on that scenario. Today if I still HAD my vote thanks a bunch FB I would start there. Roleclaims.Yasmi, - tracker/watcher3 empty reads doesn’t give us anything by which to verify your claim. The role is not exclusively an Innocent Role, and thus I cannot issue any innocence based on the role even if true. Also, if you hadn’t watched/tracked Riss, how were you so sure DD would be “sorry” for voting her? This and the oh no riss really fooled me comment felt entirely forced to me. FB – ScavengerI believe it, but like Yasmi, I doubt it confirms innocence. I suspect innocence nonetheless, cant see any reason to suspect otherwise. Duck – TroublemakerThis I believe and am comfortable with you being innocent. Do you know what your other powers are and have you used any other? Still catching up.
|
|
|
Post by firebolt153 on Feb 21, 2013 11:54:58 GMT -8
Yasmi that's interesting. Crazy was the person I checked toDay and it said nothing happened to her. I checked her because I thought you were going to check Luv . I thought maybe the roleblocking was my doing, because when I pick up someone's power, they don't get to use it while I have it, but the timing is off. If you had been able to track/watch her, I would have known because you're a Night action and mine is the following Day. In post 858 you said you could use the power you found, but you didn't say that you also blocked the original user. Are you now saying that your role does that too? Yes, to maintain balance. Had Yasmi not been blocked, and I had discovered that Crazy had been watched/tracked, Yasmi would have not been able to use her role this coming Night because I would have had it for the Night. She would get it back the next Night.
|
|
|
Post by cala on Feb 21, 2013 12:17:20 GMT -8
CalaAs far as the capture of Riss was concerned, I am strongly of the mind a rogue voted in there. 8 votes on a rogue. that leads me to believe that now Tae was not, Cala is most likely to be rogue based on that scenario. Today if I still HAD my vote thanks a bunch FB I would start there. Wait, what? Because I was one of 8 people to vote for Riss and Tae turned up innocent then I must be the rogue? You steamrolled Tae and she was innocent, so now its my turn? And thats what you are basing your FOS on? So is your plan to go through everyone who voted her in hope you eventually hit a rogue? Or is it to keep eyes off you perhaps?
|
|
|
Post by Jolyma on Feb 21, 2013 12:31:34 GMT -8
I never answered that question...
I had cereal most likely, I don't usually get up in time to cook hot food on the weekdays. It was a perfect example of how I was looking at that particular discussion at the time though, whether she meant it that way or not. Same pig, different meat.
Aha, doing all this research shows me that Luv had a different interpretation, which I figured might be the case. I now see why she was interested in my question. Since she was not looking at things the way I was, it makes sense now. She thought I was asking an impossible to answer right question. I wasn't, though, I think she and I just were thinking on different levels of things. It happens, we can't exactly see into others' minds.
Ok, so my head is spinning around these role claims, so please, bear with me while I try to put the gist of it all in one place. After each 'gist' of a post, if I have thoughts or questions, I will place a * to designate it's my own thoughts.
Marinated says a nefarious villian has stolen her vote.
Firebolt then comes in and claims a scavenger role. She says that it's a Day use role, and she can look and see if someone had a role used on them the Night before. If there was, she gains a one shot use of that role's power the next Night. She says she checked out Marinated, and was able to steal the vote stealing power.
*Firebolt could have stolen a vote last Night. *If Firebolt uses a stolen power, does she still get to use hers?
Yasmi roleclaims once she sees she is lynch leader. She claims a tracker/watcher role. Says Night 1 Sets stayed home, Night 2 no one visited Firebolt and Night 3, Cala stayed home. Clarifies a few posts later that she can track or watch, but not both, each Night, her choice.
*This role can go either way
Bunny is banned, and after Daybreak, DD claims Troublemaker. He says it is 4 one use powers, that he doesn't choose which to use, he asks for a die-roll from the mods. He rolls during the Day and learns at Night what he rolled, and he can choose to use the power or not. Says he used the power against Marinated, feeling that she was a rogue. He agrees that Firebolt's description is correct.
*So, Firebolt is being truthful about her role. Couple of things spring to mind: If his role is 4 one use powers, why did she not steal the ability to roll a power? I don't see why DD would tie himself to Firebolt though if they were both rogues together. *Does not eliminate the possibility of scavenger being a rogue power.
Ducky says he did not try to use his role yesterDay.
Firebolt says she took Twopatch's vote
Yasmi says she visited Crazy last Night, but was blocked.
*I had thought she said she was going to look at Luv. Someone else mentions this too, but Yasmi says she meant in the thread, not with her power.
*Points to a rogue blocking power if true.
Firebolt says she checked Crazy last Night too, but nothing happened to Crazy.
*This means it's a roleblock, not a protection. Or Yasmi is lying. Or Firebolt is lying. I think this is where the circles start happening...
Twopatch confirms being roleless.
Firebolt says that if she steals the role for the Night, then the roleholder can't use it.
*This brings me back to the issue with Duck's claim of 4 one use powers, and why did she not get the ability to roll a die to choose a power. If he can roll and then choose to save the power, why not roll every Day?
Now. What do I think. I think that at face value, the roleblock would be a rogue power, to allow them to ban Bunny. But why ban Bunny over the existance of two known roleholders?
Why was Firebolt only given one part of a role?
Scavengers aren't something I am familiar with. Not sure what to think alignment wise here.
I have held a multi-power role in past games (the Mage). The difference was, while all were indeed one shot, I got to choose which to use.
I feel like I am missing something. Like a piece of the puzzle that is there, but covered up by another piece.
I am trying to figure out why DD felt the need to claim. It doesn't seem like it was necessary, regardless of his alignment. He wasn't under suspicion. It didn't give us definitive information. All it did was stick his neck out for no reason. Why tell the rogues, 'oh hey secret unused powers here, and by the way, I won't be using them toNight!'
|
|
|
Post by Jolyma on Feb 21, 2013 12:34:24 GMT -8
Hmm. Seems that Firebolt can steal a power and use a stolen power at the same time (almost, yes one is Night and one is Day use, but still). And it role blocks to prevent a role use from the person she stole from?
Did I get that right?
|
|
|
Post by Luvessy on Feb 21, 2013 12:48:41 GMT -8
Jolyma said:
Presumably to eliminate any FoI on Marinated by claiming that it wasn't a rogue power.
|
|
|
Post by firebolt153 on Feb 21, 2013 12:50:04 GMT -8
Joly:I have no idea why I didn't get that power. But it's why I asked if Ducky was able to use his role last Night.
Also…I think your explanation is correct?
|
|
|
Post by Luvessy on Feb 21, 2013 13:00:59 GMT -8
I need to look at Joly again. I strongly suspect one of the Tae voters (Twopatch, Yasmi, and Joly) is a rogue. For now, my inclination is Twopatch.
Twopatch, yes you mentioned other players and participated on other discussions, but it felt as though you would not vote, for anyone other than Tae, and, in fact, did not. I suggest that the argument for Tae was in fact light, with it primarily being based upon her not participating in the way you've expect, rather than a specific action. I was not comfortable with Tae and could see the possibility that she could be a rogue, but I did not see a condemning case there. For example, in your latest post, you indicate that you felt Yasmi's behavior surrounding Riss was forced, but did not appear to consider voting for Yasmi yesterday or at any other point when she was a contender. I've also given the Riss example. So, while I have no issue with vote early and consist changing it later, I have a hard time believing your vote was actually fluid.
|
|
|
Post by Jolyma on Feb 21, 2013 13:02:43 GMT -8
So if you have a power to use at Night, you can still check the next Day. And if you've got a power, the person who is supposed to have it doesn't.
Gotcha.
Ok. I still can't see why Innocent Ducky would roleclaim. I don't see why Rogue Ducky would just to cast suspicion on Marinated again though. Especially since Marinated essentially said that she should be getting FOI by admitting that she used nefarious villian, not her notice.
I'm left with: I just don't get why Ducky would role claim. The part that really bothers me is that he's saying he has 3 unused powers left.
I'm also left with: Why Bunny and not Firebolt or Yasmi? This seems really important somehow, but there are too many questions with it. There is a possibility of Bunny having a role the rogues discovered. There is a possibility of a fake claim, but then why not ban the un-fake claim? To disguise the fake one? It's not as suspicious if NEITHER claim is banned?
Is anyone else pondering these things tonight?
|
|
|
Post by Luvessy on Feb 21, 2013 13:03:40 GMT -8
Firebolt, why did you use your role on Crazy?
|
|
|
Post by firebolt153 on Feb 21, 2013 13:08:59 GMT -8
Maybe this will be clearer.
What Firebolt Did (And Thought) The Past Few Days and Nights:
Day 4: Hm, Marinated's getting some heat. Lemme check to see if someone picked her to use their role on last Night. Oh look, I got a vote stealing power. This means she can't vote toDay, and I can steal someone's toNight. Also damn, that is totally a rogue power, they're not gonna be happy if they want to steal someone else's vote toNight cause neener neener, I have it temporarily.
Night 4: You know what, I'ma take Twopatch's vote cause he was all over Tae and she ended up being innocent and that's just not cool.
Day 5: Okay so Yasmi said she was gonna check Luv so I'll check Crazy cause she was the one who was all "can we pleeeeeeease lynch Tae" and that is weird.
Huh. Nothing happened to Crazy last Night. Alright then.
Wait Yasmi tried to see what was up with Crazy last Night? And she got a no read? But I didn't do anything until toDay, so I didn't block her (accidentally). Someone must have roleblocked her.
|
|
|
Post by Crazy Mg on Feb 21, 2013 13:09:54 GMT -8
then i must've read the vote tally on the wiki wrong >.> So, Crazy, you gave Marinated FoI based on a vote she never made...any new thoughts on that? I was thinking marinated was innocent before that but with not so strong a feeling, It'll go back the that level, I haven't seen anything from marinated that makes me suspicious of her.
|
|
|
Post by Luvessy on Feb 21, 2013 13:12:39 GMT -8
Yes, you already said that you didn't use your role on me because you thought Yasmi would. Why did you use your role on Crazy? What did you hope to learn? Who did you target past evenings?
|
|
|
Post by Jolyma on Feb 21, 2013 13:16:08 GMT -8
Look please, Luv. Maybe you can figure out why I was so wrong.
The possible rogue block.
Ok, so I'm a rogue, and I see Yasmi the Non Rogue saying she was going to look at Luv next. I assume, like several of us did it appears, that she will target Luv to see what Luv is doing. Instead of banning a watcher/tracker, I roleblock her. Why?
1. Luv is a rogue, and we want to make sure she is not watchable/trackable. Problem: Luv could just do nothing. She can't be the only rogue left. As long as she doesn't go to the bannee's room, why does it matter if she's followed? One would have to consider a Role over a Rogue. Not a logical decision, and a waste of a power.
2. We want to set up Luv the Innocent by blocking Yasmi the Innocent.
Other possibilities:
A. Yasmi the Rogue claims a roleblock to further her FOI, without risking a lie that can be caught out.
B. The Roleblock is Innocent, and thought that Yasmi could be a rogue, and a rogue power is watching/tracking. Roleblocking Yasmi wouldn't necessarily stop the watching/tracking power if used by a different rogue, but it would stop Rogue Yasmi from doing something else. This does not give us any insight into Yasmi's status, though, just that the Innocent Roleblocker's could have blocked Yasmi for fear she's a rogue.
Yes, I know this doesn't help me find a rogue, but it does help me in the long run to have an idea of thought processes and possible motives.
|
|
|
Post by Crazy Mg on Feb 21, 2013 13:18:05 GMT -8
Day 5: Okay so Yasmi said she was gonna check Luv so I'll check Crazy cause she was the one who was all "can we pleeeeeeease lynch Tae" and that is weird. Yes wanting to save a roleholder is weird.
|
|
|
Post by Luvessy on Feb 21, 2013 13:21:15 GMT -8
Nevermind on the second, I found where you already answered it.
|
|
|
Post by Luvessy on Feb 21, 2013 13:34:34 GMT -8
And yourself, Crazy. :-P Let's not forget that...
|
|
|
Post by yasmi on Feb 21, 2013 13:44:35 GMT -8
aghhhh I am right now upset and tired and off to bed soonish cuz busy freaking work day tomorrow... I had a look at some of Luv's posts and i find her playstyle this game a bit intriguing. I am more used to a wallpost Luv rather than a Luv writing short and sweet posts. She did comment that she varies her playstyle to keep things interesting ( mainly to herself). I didnt get why she thougt that one of either 2patch or tae had to be rogues. According to DD whatever choice he made I am always doomed to be a rogue, so looks like you already made up ur mind up there mate. I also dont get why he chose to roleclaim when it was not necessary. Rosegold coming back to vote just made me ugh uuuu, why did u come now? I think we are all awaiting a wall of post that I dont see coming. Now having a role I dont see it is a good idea that I forecast who I am watching that night, since I could be blocked, the person could be blocked etc etc. From yesterdays voting I did not expect to survive and I was pretty much sure that either me or crazymg were gonna be chosen to be banned, hence i decided to go and check if crazymg the other person who had the neck on the line. I cant speculate why rogues wouldnt ban a role holder, the only logical explanation I see is that I am not a threat to them but I am especulating that I wont survive much longer. 2 patch I ve never checked Riss out, i was planning on doing it the night she got lynched, but even though I could have had an inconclusive result. Brain is drained and I need some lax time for now
|
|
Twopatch
Cabin Person
Likely to be eaten by a Grue
Posts: 92
|
Post by Twopatch on Feb 21, 2013 14:08:41 GMT -8
As I mentioned before RE yasmi, I didnt see how yasmi and Tae would both be rogues. Tae had just mounted a vote for Yas. It didnt make sense so I had to pick between them, I picked the innocent Tae.
There was no point that a switch to my secondary suspicion was necessary.
|
|
|
Post by Luvessy on Feb 21, 2013 14:09:51 GMT -8
This doesn't make sense, but it doesn't make sense, from a rogue perspective either.
Most of my posts have been on my phone - short and sweet is only a little aggregating.
|
|
|
Post by yasmi on Feb 21, 2013 14:13:29 GMT -8
Luv at the moment I dont think I am making a lot of sense hence I should keep the posting for sat morning when i am well rested but dam this game is addictive
|
|
|
Post by Jolyma on Feb 21, 2013 14:26:47 GMT -8
As I mentioned before RE yasmi, I didnt see how yasmi and Tae would both be rogues. Tae had just mounted a vote for Yas. It didnt make sense so I had to pick between them, I picked the innocent Tae. There was no point that a switch to my secondary suspicion was necessary. Wait, you picked innocent Tae to vote for?
|
|
|
Post by firebolt153 on Feb 21, 2013 14:38:20 GMT -8
Well THAT'S interesting. If you (Twopatch) were so sure she was a rogue, why are you saying you picked someone innocent?
|
|
Twopatch
Cabin Person
Likely to be eaten by a Grue
Posts: 92
|
Post by Twopatch on Feb 21, 2013 14:39:47 GMT -8
ha, I suppose you could read it that way, I was using a retrospective tone.
|
|
|
Post by firebolt153 on Feb 21, 2013 14:45:32 GMT -8
Somehow I am just not buying that.
|
|
Twopatch
Cabin Person
Likely to be eaten by a Grue
Posts: 92
|
Post by Twopatch on Feb 21, 2013 15:07:02 GMT -8
no worries,
just read it again FB, think about it. why would it be written any other way?
|
|