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Post by Setsusa on Feb 8, 2013 10:41:50 GMT -8
Stupid Bunny. Making me go into the actual post page.
Oh and it orders posts from oldest to newest instead of newest to oldest. Well, this sucks.
Yet you're saying A did X in game J so F. Which, I personally maintain is flimsy but if you are going to do it to make points, why not do it to make conclusions?
Ah, every time I copy out of Bunny's post it gives me a read more link, Notepad it is!
If I were talking about Joly disliking an FoI that I gave her as a rogue teammate, what I'm saying now would be silly. I was not talking about an FoI from a rogue teammate.
What I've thought in my playing experience and had amplified during our rogue game was that we share similar thoughts that we do not discuss, for particular reasons that we also do not discuss. Riku wanted to see what would happen, it wasn't a very serious vote, and I wanted to see what would happen if I jumped onto it as well. Rku changed his vote to me because it made sense to do, which in turn, I expected him to do.
I'm not FoI'ing Joly based on gut. I'm FoI'ing Joly because the evidence so far says she's innocent to me. Same goes for you.
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Post by Setsusa on Feb 8, 2013 10:42:39 GMT -8
Oh, I missed the bottom part.
Finding innocents is easier than finding rogues, naturally - yet both lead to the same end.
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 8, 2013 10:54:58 GMT -8
Marinated, you're right. Only rogues NEED to go looking for reason to suspect someone, but I've found many innocents who try to go looking for reason to justify a bad feeling. I don't think that Day On joking is any indication of guilt or innocence, so I tried starting a meta discussion leads to real discussion, which leads to the hunt.
Let's be perfectly clear here. FOI on Joly makes Joly VERY nervous, regardless of what she may be in a game. I can't help but feel like someone is lurking behind me in the shadows, and it makes the hairs on my neck stand on end, and gives me the heebiejeebies. I've already made a list in my head of why Sets would give me FOI right off the bat. Probably all of them are wrong, because even as a past partner of his, I still don't know how his mind works. Here are my thoughts:
Innocent Sets is setting a trap and seeing what gets caught. Innocent Sets has a better grasp on me that I have on him, and his gut tells him FOI. Rogue Sets is setting me up. Rogue Sets is trying to get on my good side right off because I scare him, and is taking a chance on the fact that it's hard to get one's subconscious to suspect someone who believes you innocent.
While we're at it, I do tend to post something meta-ish on Day 1 regardless of alignment. I think most times it's less what I did this game, and more along the lines of DON'T TAKE THE GAME PERSONALLY YOU DOOFUSES!!!
Vive La Revolution!
(Off topic, did the world end while I wasn't looking? Sets thinks I'm innocent and Van agreed with me...)
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Feb 8, 2013 11:02:45 GMT -8
Bunny wrote:<-- added for clarity. Quote attribution is really going to make me sad... Yet you're saying A did X in game J so F. Which, I personally maintain is flimsy but if you are going to do it to make points, why not do it to make conclusions? Regarding the italicized comment, actually that's what you're doing: You said "Joly (A) made a helpful post (did X) which she wouldn't do as a rogue (so F)" Then I said: "She does that as a rogue and an innocent, so what?" Then you said "Joly (A) overracted to my FOI as a rogue (did X) in a past game (don't know which, but game J), so she's innocent since she didn't do it this time (so F)." Which, I agree, is flimsy, which is why I asked. OK then I misunderstood what you said here: In what other game that you played was Joly a rogue and you gave her FOI? I'd like to look elsewhere, because I'm afraid of getting overly focused on this, but there's not much else going on...
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 8, 2013 11:09:48 GMT -8
I'm finding it an odd place to be. I seem to be the topic of conversation, but not in a way that I can really comment on other than what I already have, which is basically, you're both right. I do those things regardless of alignment, so it's really just an indication of me really being me.
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Post by Setsusa on Feb 8, 2013 11:10:33 GMT -8
You're assuming I meant she overreacted to an FoI which I gave her, which isn't what I was saying. Just FoI.
Nice avatar Joly.
It's flimsy reasoning, yes, we agree that I said as much. I'm biased into believing in it for now, and let's be realistic here, we could have spent toDay discussing meta but instead we're discussing this. While I do believe Jolyma is innocent at this point in time (and you, I was serious on that) I, and anyone else should recognized that these are initial reads, reads that have gotten us somewhere.
In other news the following just happened in my mind:
HOLY CRAP. You know what would have been really cool?
What?
If we had have made our first post like "A wind blew across the room, through the door to the foyer, out the window to the night shroud covering the town. Rushing past WRECKER15 to the distant lake before curving eastward through a dense jungle. This wind was not the beginning. There are no beginnings in ROMS, but it was a beginning."
Yup, I'm a nerd and still think that book was freaking amazing. (Wheel of Time).
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Feb 8, 2013 11:15:04 GMT -8
Finally, something I can agree with unconditionally ;D
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 8, 2013 11:19:05 GMT -8
WoT is awesome, and Bunny made my avatar, which is why she is the bestest.
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Post by Setsusa on Feb 8, 2013 11:22:39 GMT -8
So. Snow day across most of southern Ontario, figures the radio station is giving away snow blowers in their giveaways today instead of CD's.
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Feb 8, 2013 11:25:03 GMT -8
It hailed here today. Which is like the end of the world for Southern Californians.
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Post by Vantastic on Feb 8, 2013 11:54:19 GMT -8
So, are we all voting Talisker today, or what?
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 8, 2013 12:24:53 GMT -8
Why would we do that?
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Post by firebolt153 on Feb 8, 2013 12:31:09 GMT -8
If you remember I've done this before then why do you not know why? I was a rogue with Jolyma that game, of course I remember that post, why she made it and why she didn't like it later. Riku and I did share reasoning. In fact, the reasoning then and now are strikingly similar. Don't worry Setsusa, I understand exactly why you do what you do. And not because you've elaborated on your explanations, no, it's because I trust you. Anyone who trusts anyone this early in the game, or at all really, makes me suspicious.
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Leif
Senior Chatterbox
Posts: 600
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Post by Leif on Feb 8, 2013 12:35:49 GMT -8
So, are we all voting Talisker today, or what? Not all of us.
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Post by Setsusa on Feb 8, 2013 12:37:22 GMT -8
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 8, 2013 13:40:17 GMT -8
We don't have a reason to that I am aware of...
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Post by Vantastic on Feb 8, 2013 13:49:44 GMT -8
Don't worry Setsusa, I understand exactly why you do what you do. And not because you've elaborated on your explanations, no, it's because I trust you. Anyone who trusts anyone this early in the game, or at all really, makes me suspicious. Life is better when you can trust many people, rather than only a few. If we are so scared as to not trust each other in this revolution, then haven't the rogues already won?
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Post by firebolt153 on Feb 8, 2013 14:17:19 GMT -8
At this point so early in the game, I trust no one, because with my luck I'd trust a rogue, and then I'd get lead down a dark alley and get whacked with the banstick, or to the noose. I'd rather stick around and help weed them out.
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 8, 2013 14:45:48 GMT -8
So led, whacked, noosed and weeded?
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Post by firebolt153 on Feb 8, 2013 14:50:35 GMT -8
Precisely
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 8, 2013 14:58:07 GMT -8
Well alrighty then.
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Phoenix
Cabin Person
I come from the Land Down Under
Posts: 99
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 8, 2013 17:12:25 GMT -8
Day One FOIs always give me the heebie jeebies - but then again Sets never seems to explain enough for me when he gives things like that out anyway so I tend to brush that off as Sets being Sets... Which could possibly get me in trouble later down the line come to think of it.
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Taelac
Officer
Be bold. It makes your enemies hesitate.
Posts: 357
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Post by Taelac on Feb 8, 2013 17:18:10 GMT -8
Does anyone else feel like they've stumbled into a stage play written and performed by ADHD squirrels on meth?
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Riss
Cabin Person
Posts: 82
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Post by Riss on Feb 8, 2013 17:51:08 GMT -8
@tae: Maybe.
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Okay so my brain is basically fried so this is going to be hopefully short and sweet.
@sets:
What is up with you giving out FoI's so easily? You gave one to Jolyma and now one to Bunny.
Please explain the Bunny cares too much about FoI to be rogue. I don't really see that as a good reason to FoI someone. I would think regardless of alignment that people care about early FoI's.
I'm just not really seeing Bunny's comments as indicative of any alignment.
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As for numbers - I'd have to say it's probably 3 maybe at max 4. It's just looking at the numbers. 2 looks to small for this size of a game and 5 looks like too many rogues for this small of a game.
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As for Vantastic..
He looks like he's trying to gain player's trust already. I'm not really sure which way to look at it. So I'm not super suspicious of this, but just a little bit. I'm going to watch him a bit more to try and see where he might be going with that.
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Stupid Ads. They are going bye bye for a bit. I'm paying for a small amount of views without them being super annoying. They blocked half my post. ):
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Post by Luvessy on Feb 8, 2013 18:03:59 GMT -8
It's interesting to me that some people seem more concerned about FoIs than FoSs. If we recognize that FoS means, "I find this person suspicious, and they may be a crook!" why are people so reluctant to view FoI as, "This person does not strike me as suspicious, and they may be innocent." For some reason, it seems like there's a higher hesitancy about FoI.
In short, I'm not bothered by it any more than first day suspicions.
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Riss
Cabin Person
Posts: 82
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Post by Riss on Feb 8, 2013 18:20:11 GMT -8
It's not really that it's a concern for me. The thing I'm concerned with the whole FoI by Sets is that he seems to be giving out over something that really can be done by either alignment. Rogues and innocents both can give traction against early FoI's.
I mean if you give an early FoI for a really good reason. That's fine, but these FoI's that he's been giving out can easily get holes shot into them and bring them down as fast that he hands them out.
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Post by Luvessy on Feb 8, 2013 18:39:52 GMT -8
That's fine, but these FoI's that he's been giving out can easily get holes shot into them and bring them down as fast that he hands them out. So? What makes that a bad thing? Don't get me wrong - I understand asking for elaboration. I don't understand the imbalance between impressions of innocence and suspicion.
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Feb 8, 2013 18:48:13 GMT -8
Sherlock Holmes always said that it's a capital mistake to theorize before one has data, because there is a danger of trying to make the data fit the theory rather than coming to a conclusion based on the data.
Which is my difficulty with Day 1 - there's not a lot of data to work with. But it's also why I'm uncomfortable with seemingly baseless FOIs (and FOSs for that matter). Sure, you can say, "this is only my initial read, of course I'll change it as things progress" but you're likely to interpret all future happenings in light of the preconceived notion you began with. That's why we get "rogue colored glasses" - once we "feel" like somebody's a rogue, everything they do looks roguish, even if they end up innocent. The converse also happens. I got stuck on a "feeling" that sets probably wasn't a rogue in Cluedo, and I was totally wrong. So I guess I'm saying I don't have a problem with FOIs in particular, nor do I have a problem with FOSs, but in either case I think there should be some basis, and i wanted to know the basis of sets'. I would question sets to an equal extent if he had randomly given a "high FOS" after one post...the only reason I'm nitpicking FoIs is that as far as I can recall there haven't been any FoSs so far.
Unless you count van wanting to vote for Leif. Which, again, why? And nobody say why not please.
@tae ADHD Squirrels on meth enacting a play? Sounds like a Tuesday in my classroom. (Minus the meth)
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Post by Setsusa on Feb 8, 2013 18:58:49 GMT -8
I believe I am the only person to give out an FoS or an FoI.
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Post by firebolt153 on Feb 8, 2013 19:03:06 GMT -8
Sherlock Holmes always said that it's a capital mistake to theorize before one has data, because there is a danger of trying to make the data fit the theory rather than coming to a conclusion based on the data. Which is my difficulty with Day 1 - there's not a lot of data to work with. This. I mean, if something seems odd to me on Day 1, I'll mark it in my notes and keep an eye on it, but short of someone saying "I'm so excited to be a roag I can't wait to ban someone!" I can't really see giving out a serious FoS, or FoI for that matter.
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