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Post by wrecker15 on Jan 18, 2014 7:02:10 GMT -8
The ResistanceWelcome to the first run of The Resistance. If you have not heard of the game before, the basic premise is an informed minority versus an uninformed majority, where the Spies (Informed Minority) attempt to sabotage the missions of the Resistance (Uninformed Majority). Basic Gameplay- This game is set up for ten players, with six Resistance members and four Spies.
- The game involves five Missions. The goal of the Resistance is to successfully complete three missions while the goal of the Spies is to sabotage three Missions.
- Unlike ROMS, there is no elimination in this game.
Spies- Spies are aware of each others' identities.
- They are able to communicate outside the game thread.
- However, please link me to whatever it is you're using to communicate.
Day Cycle- Two things will be done in the Day - The selection of Mission members and the voting on whether or not to send the Mission team.
- The people selected to go on the missions are selected by the Game Master (GM), who is a random player in the game. This will change every Day Cycle.
- Game Masters, please present your team in bolded text, in the following format:
Mission Team: Wrecker15, Furare, Searmin
- Once this choice has been presented, it cannot be changed.
- The rest of the members will then get to vote. The two possible votes are as follows (please use this format):
Vote: Accept Vote: Reject
- If 50% + 1 of the players accept the mission team, the mission will continue. Night Cycle will start.
- In any other scenario (either not enough votes, or a majority reject vote) the game will move straight on to the next Day cycle and the process will be repeated with a new Game Master.
Night Cycle- In the event that a mission team is sent out, the Night Cycle will begin.
- Players selected to go on the mission must send a PM to me that says either 'Mission success' or 'Mission fail'.
- Resistance members must send Mission success, Spies can send either 'Mission success' or 'Mission fail'.
Missions- The following number of people are required for missions:
Mission 1: 3 Mission 2: 4 Mission 3: 4 Mission 4: 5 Mission 5: 5
- For missions 1, 2 and 3, only one Mission fail message is needed for the mission to fail.
- For missions 4 and 5, two Mission fail messages are needed for the mission to fail.
Deadlines- Deadlines for the Day Cycle will move freely.
- The maximum allocated time for a Day cycle is 96 hours, but at any time, if I see that there are 50% + 1 votes, I will move the game to the next Day/Night Cycle.
- Night Cycles are a fixed 24 hours.
Roles and extra Win Conditions- There will be one role in this game: the Double Agent.
- The Double Agent is a Resistance member who is aware of the identities of all the Spies, and is free to use this knowledge to their advantage.
- However, at the end of the game, if the Spies are able to correctly deduce the identity of the Double Agent, they will win the game regardless of how many Missions they sabotaged.
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Post by wrecker15 on Jan 18, 2014 7:04:15 GMT -8
Game Master List: Riku Leif AhoyLindsay Jolyma Aethera firebolt Bunnylaroo Furare Marinated Setsusa
Mission Status Mission 1: Pending Mission 2: Mission 3: Mission 4: Mission 5:
Current Cycle: Night 1
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Post by wrecker15 on Jan 18, 2014 7:06:16 GMT -8
Day 1 is up. Your next deadline is 7am on Wednesday, 22 Jan PST, or 11pm on the same day my time.
Good luck, guys!
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Post by AhoyLindsay on Jan 18, 2014 7:12:06 GMT -8
Hey everyone, looking forward to playing. Vive la resistance. Busy day today but I'll be back around later this evening.
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Post by Jolyma on Jan 18, 2014 7:47:03 GMT -8
Here! And for the first time in a LONG time of ROMS, I am wondering, "now what?" But that's sort of refreshing!
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Post by Setsusa on Jan 18, 2014 8:40:59 GMT -8
Hello, I am yes.
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Post by Marinated on Jan 18, 2014 9:07:33 GMT -8
Here. I guess the first selection will be a bit of a shot in the dark.
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Furare
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Post by Furare on Jan 18, 2014 9:30:30 GMT -8
I'm expecting the forums to upgrade themselves to ProBoards v.5 at some point, so if everything starts looking a bit different around here that will be why. Do not adjust your set, and all that.
I guess all we can do for the first mission is throw three people at the problem and see what happens. And keep in mind that we can get false negatives in this game, so a Success proves nothing. (Gets a point for the good guys, though, so there's that.)
Heh, it's interesting to think that actually nearly half of us are bad guys. And it's the beginning of the game. Culture shock.
Since it's Riku's turn to choose, I guess there's not a whole lot of else to say.
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Jan 18, 2014 9:50:20 GMT -8
I spend too much time on the internet, but this is immediately what I thought when I saw that post. Also, Hi guys!
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Post by firebolt153 on Jan 18, 2014 11:26:43 GMT -8
I don't have anything witty to say, but I am here.
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Furare
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ROMS Encyclopaedia
Posts: 502
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Post by Furare on Jan 18, 2014 12:00:14 GMT -8
I don't have anything witty to say I've never let that stop me.
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Post by Riku on Jan 18, 2014 13:45:45 GMT -8
I have lots of witty things to say, and I refuse to say any of them. Take that. So... I think we should discuss meta/procedure. My guess is this game, simply owing to the structure of it, will be more focused on what people do rather than what people say. Those of you who like to analyze vote records in ROMS, here is your time to shine. We're also going to have to very much rewire our brains on how to look for the bad guys. Spies are no longer attempting to avoid getting lynched, so most if not all of the old "tells" are not applicable. As for the missions: Mission 1: 1/3 Mission 2: 1/4 Mission 3: 1/4 Mission 4: 2/5 Mission 5: 2/5 That is the fraction of fail votes each mission must receive in order to fail. That means that for mission 2 and 3, the GM must pick 4/4 resistance in order to be a guaranteed success. Things to keep in mind: - Spies can vote for success if they see it to be beneficial.
- A mission proposal that is rejected does not directly benefit the Spies. It is not the same as a missed lynch in ROMS; all it does is give us a new GM and doesn't let the mission team go through, which could be a benefit for either side depending on the situation. Don't be afraid to vote reject.
- People can't be banned. People also can't be lynched. As long as you are not the double agent, you can voice your thoughts a lot more than you could in ROMS. Is there even any reason a non-double agent resistance member would hide their thoughts? Not a rhetorical question, if anyone can think of a reason, please speak up. I can't think of one. There's a flip side to this, though. If you suspect someone is a spy, you can't do anything about it except reject missions that they're on. They're staying in the game.
Finally, how should we pick mission teams? Should we just let the GM pick people? Set up a semi-formal system of nominations? I'm not sure. Personally, I think the more information and the more we get people on record the better.
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Post by firebolt153 on Jan 18, 2014 15:00:52 GMT -8
Well I'll stoke the fire and just volunteer to go on a mission. Can we do that? I mean, feel free to be like NO, FIREBOLT.
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Post by firebolt153 on Jan 18, 2014 15:02:45 GMT -8
Another thought…are we going to be nitpicky about editing posts with this game?
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Post by AhoyLindsay on Jan 18, 2014 15:53:27 GMT -8
Finally, how should we pick mission teams? Should we just let the GM pick people? Set up a semi-formal system of nominations? I'm not sure. Interesting question. I feel like when someone's the GM, they're not going to pick someone they think is a bad guy (or not pick the bad guys they want to pick), regardless of whether other people had nominated the individual. But since we all want our proposed missions to pass, it's useful to know who others won't vote for to be on a team. However, my guess is that that can be gleaned from the thread if people are clear about their thoughts. Also, I think that leaving it to the GM to pick the team is one of more important sources of information, and we don't want to give people any excuses to dodge responsibility for their picks. Re: editing I dunno. I do tend to make more formatting mistakes on these forums since I'm less used to them, so if we all just agreed not to edit content I wouldn't really mind letting that slide. But I can also just check my posts more carefully for tags and such.
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Furare
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Posts: 502
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Post by Furare on Jan 18, 2014 16:11:37 GMT -8
Hrm. I suppose on the one hand you don't want the GM to dodge responsibility, but on the other hand, you might find out more about what everyone thinks by having a nomination stage. And the GM still has to make the final decision; there's no dodging that. I just feel that if everyone makes some sort of nomination every Day, there'll be more information, maybe patterns will start to emerge. But obviously I don't know.
I'm so used to not editing in game threads that I don't think "allowing" it would make much difference to me.
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Post by Jolyma on Jan 18, 2014 16:43:09 GMT -8
I maybe think it's better to say if you think the GM shouldn't include Person A than it is to say someone SHOULD be included.
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Post by AhoyLindsay on Jan 18, 2014 17:40:54 GMT -8
The other interesting thing is that it's not clear yet how quickly we're going to be able to agree to a team regardless of how the GM proposes it. The game could in theory go on indefinitely if we can't get the votes we need for a mission, but in practice that could mean anything from agreeing with proposals right away to rejecting things three or four or five times. And it means we could have GM picks only by the first 5 people on the list, or go through the whole list multiple times, depending on the extent to which people agree. Unlike in ROMS, we don't have a lot of incentive to agree to things we're unsure of, which could end up being good in some ways and bad in others.
Actually, the more I think on it, the odder this whole situation is-I actually relish it, nobody really knowing what they're doing, even if it's nerve-wracking as well. Should we all be lobbying riku to send us/the people we think are resistance? Not accepting riku's proposals at all unless we think he's innocent? Just going with the flow for round 1? It's kind of cool because none of us have precedent, and we can make stuff up as we go or even totally change approaches to the game from day to day.
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Post by Setsusa on Jan 18, 2014 20:14:56 GMT -8
If Riku is a spy, and if he knows that Leif or AL are spies, we're in troubles regardless of what we do. If a mission fails, it's possible that the GM is a spy as well as people on the mission team.
Now, it's obviously not fair to just assume that the GM is a spy and I think in most cases standard practice would be to include oneself on the team. However, exactly half of us have ulterior motives to that of the resistance. As far as I can tell, the double agent has the same motives as us but can't be as explicit in how they use their information because if it's too obvious, the spies win the game.
Even at the end of the game, the spies could win by random guessing.
ANYWAY. I walked away from this post half an hour ago so I forget where I was going with this.
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Furare
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Posts: 502
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Post by Furare on Jan 19, 2014 3:19:55 GMT -8
I'm not sure where Sets got the idea that a mission can fail from the GM being a Spy - it's only the people who go on the mission who get to submit a success/fail choice, right? I would have thought that, yeah, if you're the GM you'd want to include yourself because a Resistance GM would only be sure of themselves, and why put 3/4/5 people whose alignment you don't know on a team when you can trim it to 2/3/4?
Yeah, the ability of the Spies to win by randomly guessing the Double Agent is kind of troubling. This part of the game reminds me of Kingmaker, except that the DA can't be betrayed by over-zealous Guards as can happen to unfortunate Kings. Heh.
I was wondering whether favouring information along the lines of "I don't want X to go on the Mission" might lead to exposing the Double Agent, because "people I don't want to go on Missions" is the sum total of their secret knowledge. I'm not sure I can explain it any better than that.
PS: Forum upgrade seems to have happened. And wow, the "blank" avatar is kind of creepy.
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Furare
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ROMS Encyclopaedia
Posts: 502
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Post by Furare on Jan 19, 2014 3:54:38 GMT -8
Well, I changed the default avatar to something less creepy. Just as a note, you can now quote people without "Quoting" (and linking to) the post: Something Furare might say. The BB Code for this is [.quote author="@name"]Quote[./quote] (Remove the dots, and replace "name" with the person you're quoting, and it's done.)
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Leif
Senior Chatterbox
Posts: 600
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Post by Leif on Jan 19, 2014 7:08:36 GMT -8
I don't think Sets is saying that only a spy GM is sufficient for a mission to fail. Just reminding us that a spy Gm could stack the deck, I think.
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Furare
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Post by Furare on Jan 19, 2014 7:50:12 GMT -8
Yeah, I kind of get that's what he meant now, but when I read it initially that's not what I thought. I wouldn't have been surprised if someone had been confused about the rules, given we haven't played this before.
I'm not sure it really matters, though; a mission failing tells us there was a Spy in the mission party, but it tells us nothing about the alignment of the Game Master if they didn't go. A GM who sends a mission that fails could be guilty of nothing more than choosing unwisely. It might help to keep things simple if GMs always choose to send themselves, I would suggest, for clarity of information.
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Post by Jolyma on Jan 19, 2014 9:53:49 GMT -8
I guess I was thinking the opposite of Furare. After a mission fails, we're all going to have our opinions about who we think is the spy, so I was thinking that if we limit it to who we think should not be going, that may actually help the DA, since they'd have a crowd to blend into. Of course, I was also thinking that the GM was part of the mission. I know it doesn't say that in the rules, but to me it seemed like that would be the logical thing for a GM to do.
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Post by Aethera on Jan 19, 2014 11:08:00 GMT -8
Totally forgot about this yesterday. 23 posts already!
I didn't get to see the creepy blank avatar, but now Sets and Fire have the same icon, which is very confusing. Would one of you mind changing? I will say otherwise I really like the upgrade - feels fancier!
My gut instinct is the same as Joly's - that it's more useful for non-GMs in a given round to indicate who they DON'T want to send on a mission, or at least in addition to suggesting people, be sure to state who you definitely don't want to see sent. "If you send Searmin on this mission, I'm auto-rejecting it" is good information for the GM. Basically an 'auto-reject' list is like a High FOS.
Sets - 'standard practice to includes oneself on the team' - I think that unless there's an outcry from the 'town' (are we calling ourselves as a whole the town?) it would yes, always make sense to include yourself. Furare, I don't think we can say 'always sends themselves' because if by the time we get to a particular GM, we're pretty sure he/she is a spy, we don't want them going on the mission.
I think it might make sense for Riku to send himself and the next two GMs on the mission (so, Leif and AL) in order to give us the best idea of whether we'll be able to trust the next two GMs. Obviously it only helps so much, but it's the best I can think of for Round 1. Sets, is that what you were getting at when you mentioned Leif and AL? The "If Riku is a spy and if he knows that Leif or AL are spies" comment you made didn't quite make sense to me - the spies are like the rogues - they know each others identities for certain.
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Post by Aethera on Jan 19, 2014 11:08:17 GMT -8
Ack, my avatar vanished. /e goes to find one
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Jan 19, 2014 11:48:23 GMT -8
Ok, adjusting to shiny forum upgrade. Can somebody tell me how to regular reply (in lieu of quick replying)? Is it the thumb? Sorry, I'm bad with change, and I'm afraid to randomly push buttons to see what happens. LOL Since I'm quick replying and can't preview, apologies in advance if this quote is broken: Furare, I don't think we can say 'always sends themselves' because if by the time we get to a particular GM, we're pretty sure he/she is a spy, we don't want them going on the mission. But if we are pretty sure a particular GM is a spy, we can always vote to reject the mission. Which means, I suppose, that I'm in the "GM should send him/herself on the mission" camp.
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Jan 19, 2014 11:49:42 GMT -8
Never mind, it's the word "Reply" that lets you reply with preview. HOW VERY LOGICAL.
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Post by firebolt153 on Jan 19, 2014 12:32:17 GMT -8
Well this is going to take a bit of getting used to. The limes threw me off too, Aeth. Lemme see if I can find a suitable replacement.
I keep forgetting that there's no real 'consequences' of figuring out if someone is a spy. Grumble.
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Post by Riku on Jan 19, 2014 12:48:37 GMT -8
I think it might make sense for Riku to send himself and the next two GMs on the mission (so, Leif and AL) in order to give us the best idea of whether we'll be able to trust the next two GMs. I'm not sure if I agree with this. It doesn't really give us a good idea of whether we'll be able to trust them (and I assume you meant to include me as well), because spies can vote for a mission to succeed. It's like a game of Mastermind where the pegs can decide to tell you if you guessed right or not, and the person guessing changes every round. On another note... How soon should I lock in the mission set? We're about 30 hours in to our 96 hours. Should we call it an informal deadline at somewhere around 48 hours to give people enough time to vote? (Also, interesting thought: A GM could simply not propose a mission set, and at the end of the 96 hours the game will move on to the next Day Cycle. I don't see why that would ever be a good idea, but it's a possibility) Finally, I'm a fan of the new boards. I like the quoting, and I love the live-updating preview.
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