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Post by firebolt153 on Feb 2, 2014 0:12:22 GMT -8
I voted accept cause I thought the team was good. And I voted quickly because I was there. Aeth, yes, I came upon my thoughts of you and Riku being spies by process of elimination. For me, looking at it all like I presented it in the one post helps me see things and try to make connections. AL, I voted for Aeth on the second mission before I came to my conclusion that she was a spy. She wasn't on the mission that passed with me in it, if that's the one you're referring to. If Joly is "either/or" for you, why would you so readily accept a mission she was on? Because if we accept a mission with a spy on it this time, we lose. I think we should only be accepting missions with people we are more than "either/or" about. fair enough Banging my head against a wall because it feels like this is all turning into a cluster. Argh.
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Feb 2, 2014 15:01:09 GMT -8
AL, I'm pretty much done dancing around the maypole of this topic with you. Considering that I'd be the most likely person to know whether I was "simply agreeing" with Leif or not, I can tell you that I wasn't, and you can continue not to believe me, and to try to spin that into a basis for suspicion, but that doesn't make it any less the case.
I didn't get around to my intended rereads, as this weekend has been a bit of a beast. Since two of the people who I wanted to get around to are on this team, I'm going to Vote: Reject. Now is not the time to plow forward through uncertainty in my mind.
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Post by wrecker15 on Feb 2, 2014 21:39:18 GMT -8
Due to not garnering enough votes, this mission is missed. Also due to my Internet going beserk, deadline is shifted forward.
Your next GM is Aethera. You still require 4 members for a mission, and your next deadline is 9.30pm on Thursday (PST) or 1.30pm my time on Friday.
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Leif
Senior Chatterbox
Posts: 600
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Post by Leif on Feb 3, 2014 7:10:13 GMT -8
So where did everyone go?
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Post by AhoyLindsay on Feb 3, 2014 14:05:36 GMT -8
Somewhere over the rainbow, perhaps? That was an oddly quiet end to the round. Firebolt:I had misread you-apologies.
Bunny, it isn't fair for you to say I was 'spinning' it into something. All I said was it made me wary at the time. That's all. You are the one who has been continuing the debate and now you are acting like I have been pushing it, when really the whole reason I continued explaining was because you continued asking.
Sorry though Bunny-I'm not trying to get into a spat or anything, just saying what I see. You know you rock.
P.S. Funny you should mention plowing... *drowns in snow*
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 3, 2014 15:13:06 GMT -8
Good question. I posted quite a bit, then backed off so other people could have a say, but that hasn't been too many people since then.
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Post by Riku on Feb 3, 2014 19:51:56 GMT -8
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's partly burnout and partly due to a sense of... what now? I've said everything I have to say, really the only thing is to wait for Aeth to propose a team. Which I'll most likely reject anyway because I think she's a spy. I know that's not particularly helpful, but I'm not sure what else.
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Post by Setsusa on Feb 3, 2014 20:31:58 GMT -8
Starting from the beginning of the game.
Riku starts off with discussing percentages for failing missions, which are misleading because although he states missions 2 and 3 are the easiest to fail, the spy quota is the same. This is pretty minor so I doubt there's any real significance to it. Outright openness to all opinions of how to proceed with mission selection is null tell.
Initially suggested by Jolyma and backed by Aethera that stating who we'd rather not send on a mission than who we'd want to send on a mission may be more helpful to the GM. Given where we are in the game, that may or may not still apply. Aeth first suggests the Riku-Leif-AL team, clever spy move or common sense tactic as it was taken? Hard to say.
Confirmed that I think Aethera is innocent.
Mixing what I remember and what I've read from the two pages my spy team is AL, Furare, Marinated and Firebolt.
After mission 1 failure AL jumps to suspect me for stating
and states that this may be an attempt to cast doubt on the entire team if the mission should fail. Not only would this mean that one of spy Setsusa's teammates is in doubt due to the mission fail, but I'm sticking my neck out too.
FoS Leif for
I suppose with the way the game is panning out right now this is true, but by seeing which teams get proposed and shot down vs some acceptance knowledge could have been and can be gained. There's a lot of "this is different and it looks like we're going to lose so I'm not going to invest myself into this game" going on in my opinion, which with the disappearing acts I've had due to real life probably holds little credit. In either case, I don't really think Leif is the type of person to miss this fact.
The more I read the dialogue between Leif and Furare I start to lean towards Leif being the spy of the two.
A certain flaw in me thinking AL and Marinated are spies is that they both voted Reject to Leif's mission which obviously held a spy.
Oh well, I've gotten somewhere down page 7.
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Post by Aethera on Feb 5, 2014 7:27:49 GMT -8
I'm so sorry guys. I've been so, so ill the last 4 days, and I completely forgot about this. I haven't read since the day I'd only managed til the bottom of whatever page that was.
I'm still sick, but I managed to make it in to work today and was in my favorites to do something and saw ROMS and went "oh shit oh shit!" I'm kind of sad no one emailed me to make sure I was still alive, but yeah. I'm really, really sorry.
If anyone wants the plague, lemme know, I can come cough all over you.
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Post by Aethera on Feb 5, 2014 8:11:57 GMT -8
OK and actually there's only been another page since my last post. And I'm the GM now. Ok, sorry, bad time to vanish. I can't put up a mission yet, as I barely remember what the heck was happening in the thread last week and my brain is not really working. I feel like I need to start over and I'm not really in a good place to do so. I may just not propose a mission ToDay, unless I stop feeling so shitty.
A quick catchup:
Joly, I did NOT have sex with that woman. We did share a beautician, though. Living in DC is weird.
Marinated: Frankly, I thought it was lazy of you, and I don't like Lazy. Feels Roguish. How do you not see the answer in what was there? And how do you still not have more to say?
Joly, that train of thought on AL vs. Firebolt is really interesting, but it assumes there was a spy on the mission, as AL pointed out. The fact that AL IS the one who pointed it out would have given me pause, in my opinion, if I was Joly, and thus it's odd to me that Joly just accepted that from AL. Then again, if she felt she'd had an AHA moment, I guess I can see why she'd accept it. It's not as though AL is wrong. I might be colored by old suspicion on AL here. I need to re-read her to determine what my current feelings are.
I think Marinated is the most likely Spy of the 4 Virgins as well, and I lean innocent on Fire, so I get that people are saying one of Bunny and Joly must be a Spy. Both don't feel Spyish to me, but I lean more strongly innocent on Bunny than Joly, so I'll have to pay attention on re-read.
Riku, no response to my response to you? Did you miss that I posted? Bueller? And Bunny, you didn't respond to it either though you were interested in my response.
Furare, I didn't understand what you meant by Give Themselves Away. To me that wording is distinct from "they talk more and we'll have more to work from to work things out" - "give themselves away" means "be obvious" to me. But if it doesn't to you, ok then. Hinting that I was purposely mischaracterising you is just...whatever. If you can't see the difference in the words, and don't care that I find them important, then so be it
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Post by Aethera on Feb 5, 2014 8:29:55 GMT -8
Coming completely out of the game for a minute, so please don't let this post affect your feelings on me either way: I just looked more closely at Post Times. No one has posted here since Monday? We're usually quiet on the weekends but this is the middle of the week. Some folks seem burnt out (Riku straight out said he is), some have vanished.
I was feeling a bit refreshed on the game after a few days away but it looks like many people are pretty done.
Should we consider ending the game, and then we can have a lively discussion of what we liked and didn't like and what we figured out and what the Spies were thinking and etc? At this point, that potential discussion feels more interesting to me than continuing to play. Sorry Wrecker, I hope you don't take that personally. It's been an interesting experiment, certainly.
This may just be sick me really just wanting to go home and go back to bed today, but what you think, everyone?
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 5, 2014 8:51:21 GMT -8
I vote no on ending it. I keep popping in to see if people have been here, I wonder if everyone else is just doing that too.
As for just accepting what AL said, I was excited when I was looking at numbers (something Sets had half said actually triggered the AHA), and I figured that I had missed something, because it almost seemed too easy, if that makes sense? That's why I asked if it made sense to everyone else, or if they saw holes to poke in it. Yes, I can see a good reason why Spy AL would point out the hole there (gain a little FOI, or point more FOS at me), but, it IS a legitimate hole regardless.
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Feb 5, 2014 9:55:11 GMT -8
For my part, my computer is currently non-functioning, so I am forced to read/post from my phone or tablet, which, frankly, I hate doing because ugh autocorrect plus ugh one finger typing.
That, combined with having no idea where to go from here, have got me tongue-tied. This doesn't mean I want to give up, I'm just a little lost.
So it's nothing personal that I didn't reply to your explanation Aeth. I noted it, it sounded plausible, I still need to reread you to form an opinion of you.
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Post by AhoyLindsay on Feb 5, 2014 13:12:00 GMT -8
Joly, that's roughly what I'm doing-I probably should be doing a reread like Sets is, but with schoolwork it's harder to find the time for that approach. However, I'm still enjoying the game. I think if Aethera has time to post a team, maybe discussion will start up again. In ROMS you can always stir things up by voting, not necessarily so here. The main morale risk I see is if we reject missions indefinitely, but I don't know what can be done to solve that. Depends on our patience, I suppose. There are a lot of power outages happening here so I don't know if other people are affected by that sort of thing, too-I'm crashing with some friends at the moment because we're not allowed to sleep in my dorm when the fire alarms have no power.
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Post by Setsusa on Feb 5, 2014 17:24:51 GMT -8
Continuing from where I left off before... Furare said This in a way suggests that Furare and Leif could be spies together, it's just so wishy-washy. I think Leif would feel it necessary to include a spy on his mission team to leave possibilities in the four Unsent players rather than have 3 of them be spies. It's frustrating because there's so much between the two that it can be spun various ways. At this point I think they have the same alignment, and think it is Spy. If Aethera is the Spy that failed mission 2 then well played you win life. Note that Furare is pretty convinced Aethera is an innocent prior to mission 2. Immediately after mission 2 however: The simplest solution would be that Leif is a Spy, being the only common link between the two missions. Would that really be wise? I think the key question is, would the Spies fail Mission #2 if there were two Spies on it. Or indeed if they would have failed Mission #1 if there were two Spies on that. If we suppose that there was one Spy on each Mission, and imagine for a moment that in both cases the Spy was Leif, that would mean that of the 4 people who have not been on a Mission yet (Jolyma, Marinated, Firebolt and Bunny), three must be Spies. I don't think that's a situation that the Spy team would want to set up unless they thought that they could induce us to pick from the people "untainted" by failure. To show my working logically: Supposition #1: There was one Spy on each Mission. Supposition #2: Leif is a Spy. Leads to: Conclusion #1: Any person who has not been on a mission has a 75% chance of being a Spy. Conclusion #2: Picking any 4 non-Leif persons from the list of those already deployed should give a guaranteed success and a lock victory since we can send all 5 non-Leif persons on the 5 man missions. Taking the above, I think it shows that either Supposition #1, Supposition #2, or both are flawed. So either Leif is not a Spy, or there was more than one Spy on either Mission #1 or Mission #2. Leif's reactions this game have seemed genuine and conforming to his innocent behaviour so I discard Supposition #2, while bearing in mind that #1 could also be erroneous. My current best guess is that AL is a Spy from Mission #1, though I don't discount Riku from consideration. I would also imagine that Aethera is the Spy from Mission #2; it's a subtle thing, but her actions towards the end of the deadline period left me feeling a little harried into making a decision and also doubting of Sets. There is also the possibility that she is entirely genuine and that Setsusa's actions really are of concern. Given my musings above I am not inclined to accept any mission that AL proposes unless my feelings change on the probability of his being a Spy. I am not sure at this juncture which people I would trust to go on a future mission. I definitely feel how close defeat is, and I am not entirely sure why Wrecker said some of the things she did in our discussion prior to her deciding to run one of these games. That doesn't appear to be how the game works at all in practice. Huh. This pretty much says "Well, I'm not a spy and Leif isn't so Aethera is." As much as Furare has said the spies will slip up at some point in the game, I can't help but feel that Furare's beleif in Aethera's innocence as shown in her Accept post: Aw, Bunny. I'm not sure that a spy!Aethera would care this much about getting the mission together, and I think she's right that an innocent!Sets would be more likely to go AWOL for days at a time. I'm just gonna Vote: AcceptDithering never helped anyone. Which gives us Furare saying "Well, Aethera cares too much to be a Spy so I'm going to agree with her and therefore vote Accept." Pre-mission and post-mission saying "Aethera must be the spy." That's quite the turnaround in my opinion. Furare can't really argue that I was the spy because (I think at least) it'd be hard to pass off that someone who just disappeared for 3-4 days is a Spy. She doesn't want to say Leif is a spy because they've already had her spat where she fiddled with her view towards him, so she puts the doubt on Aethera. If Furare were innocent I don't feel she would be facing these constraints on who she can and can't paint as a spy because she wouldn't have to try to prove it to other people in the same sense a Spy needs to. Given the posts of Leif, Furare and Aethera following the failure of mission two, I think this theory solidifies itself nicely. A few posts later Furare gives: Jolyma - Yeah, there's the risk that the DA will slip up. But if we don't spend as long as possible forcing the Spies to talk so they will potentially make mistakes we lose anyway. I'd rather win the last three missions and then lose because the Spies found the DA than lose in - I want to say straight sets because Australian Open tennis - because we were insufficiently circumspect. Aethera - I find it difficult to respond to what you've said about me because it seems like you're working from a... not entirely accurate idea of what I'm like as a player. Just - if you think dithering is unlike me, then you're wrong. And you're not going to draw the right conclusions. I don't know why what I was saying at the end of the day would make you feel like I was trying to get you to do something; in this post, I'm actually encouraging you not to do anything if you're having second thoughts. I'm just getting... impressions of people and not really knowing why. To be honest, I don't find this game particularly amusing, I don't want to spend that much time on it, so I'm not. I guess that makes me sound pretty Sets-ish, but it's the truth. Of the people not sent, I'd say probably 2 are Spies. I don't know which two. Probably not Fire and Marinated together because they're both quiet? But that's as far as I can really go with that, I think. I don't see any particular reason to think Joly isn't a Spy. I guess that despite what Wrecker may've said about bluffing and game balance and stuff, there's really no incentive for a Spy not to sabotage a mission they're on regardless of how many Spies are on it. My head hurts. I have to admit, that's pretty convenient to what I said in my previous post. It wouldn't surprise me if the Spies were Leif, Furare, Marinated and Fire where two of them are rather outspoken and the other two are not as that could be an intentional strategy to mix their thread presence. If someone states well these people have been inactive so they might be [alignment] then the other two would be categorized as the other alignment. Would Furare toss some FoI over to two spy friends? Debatable. Do I believe she's as uninterested in this game as she stated in this post? Based off her previous efforts, no. Pretty much after this point I was disregarding things because they weren't agreeing to what I've already written. As such, I have a few pages that I should properly reread and give fair consideration to later on. Based off the findings in this post and my last I believe Leif, Furare, Marinated and Firebolt are spies with an outside shot of AL being one. That leaves me with myself, Jolyma, Riku, Aethera and Bunny as people I believe are resistance.
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Post by Aethera on Feb 6, 2014 6:19:01 GMT -8
Went home early last night and passed out on the couch, woke up and went to bed. This is seriously the sickest I've been since I was a kid. I feel so whiny. Sorry.
Deadline is tonight. I don't think I have time between then and now to re-read and decide on a mission team. Sorry again. Not sure there are enough folks around to vote on one, anyway.
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Leif
Senior Chatterbox
Posts: 600
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Post by Leif on Feb 6, 2014 9:32:29 GMT -8
Yeah, I'm here and willing to vote. Were I to pick rogues, gut says Aeth, AL, and 2 of Fire/Joly/Bunny. I'd probably support any team that didn't include them.
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Post by Aethera on Feb 6, 2014 13:36:19 GMT -8
Yep, no time. Have to work late now. Leif, care to explain your thoughts in any way? See you all ToMorrow.
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 6, 2014 14:22:52 GMT -8
I'm curious Leif. Any particular reason why, or just your gut?
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Post by Riku on Feb 6, 2014 15:22:09 GMT -8
Part of the problem I've been having is that I'm starting to seriously doubt myself. The issue lies in finding four spies in Marinated, Joly, Bunny, and Firebolt. I could see Marinated being a spy, but even that is a stretch. I don't think Firebolt is a spy, as I've already said. As for Joly and Bunny, I haven't seen anything that makes me think Joly is a spy, but I also could not see Bunny being a spy with AL based on thread interactions. So then that leads me back to wondering if my guesses that there was one spy in each mission was wrong.
Other possibilities: I still don't think the spies would have failed the mission if AL and Leif were both spies, so that one's out.
Leif is the only spy in the missions and he failed both -- very unlikely. That means there's 3 spies in the group of 4, which I doubt considering I can't even see there being 2.
Leif is a spy, but in order to be tricky picked other spies for his mission -- If he picked one, I'd be in the same position. I think the other one would not be Sets based on Sets' thoughts on Leif, and it wouldn't be Furare because of their interactions in the thread. Process of elimination means it would most likely be Aeth. I doubt the spies would be brave enough to send 3 spies on a mission and then fail it in the first time we play this game, so if it's this possibility there's only one plus Leif.
AL is a spy, and 2 of the people on mission 2 are spies -- Possible. But who? Aeth and Sets? Maybe. Furare and Sets? I'm going to believe in my gut enough to rule out the possibility with the two people I thought were innocent being spies. Aeth and Furare? Maybe.
------
So that leaves me with the following most likely possibilities in my opinion, in no particular order:
Leif, Aeth, Marinated, (Joly or Bunny) AL, Aeth, Marinated, Joly AL, Aeth, (Sets or Furare), (Marinated or Joly)
I guess I'm just going to have to accept that 1 or 2 of Marinated, Joly, and Bunny are spies. It seems unlikely to me, but everything else seems even less likely. Time for a reread of them, then.
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Post by wrecker15 on Feb 7, 2014 0:16:50 GMT -8
Ok guys.
There hasn't been a mission team proposed. Do you guys want to end the game now?
I'll check back in 24 hours and if people are ok with ending it, we probably should cause it seems like it's not working out too well all around.
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Post by Jolyma on Feb 7, 2014 6:32:11 GMT -8
Well, I'm having fun, but I'm not going to force people to play who aren't, so I'll go with the crowd.
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Leif
Senior Chatterbox
Posts: 600
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Post by Leif on Feb 7, 2014 7:57:31 GMT -8
Yeah, I feel like a lot of us laid off posting, and it all sort of feeds off us talking. We seem to be getting back into it, though. I'm willing to soldier on a bit.
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Post by Aethera on Feb 7, 2014 8:01:03 GMT -8
I'm already in favor of ending it, since I originally proposed it, but I don't think you should end just because I didn't propose a mission team. I was just too sick to remember the game existed for most of the Day and too insanely busy catching up from being sick the rest of the Day. At this moment, I'm still too sick to want to spend my free time doing anything but sleeping, which is adding to the 'we're a bit stalled out' in the 'not wanting to play anymore' list. And Fire is our new GM, and I don't think she's around.
People who seem interested in continuing to play: Riku, Sets, Joly, Bunny, AL, Leif. People who don't seem interested, based on not being around or saying so: Furare, Marinated, Fire, Aeth.
Honestly, the problem is, without lynches or bans, those who aren't interested are being forced to play by those who are, which isn't great. By the same token, those who don't want to play can force the others to stop, which isn't great either. I don't know.
All I can think of at this point are things I want to say after the game is over, not things I want to say during the game, which doesn't help either.
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Post by Setsusa on Feb 7, 2014 8:29:52 GMT -8
I'm indifferent. If we are going to play, cool let's play. If almost half can't be bothered then the game's going to be super dull if we continue so we might as well end it.
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Post by Bunnylaroo on Feb 7, 2014 12:39:49 GMT -8
I hate to say it, but circumstances for me are making it so that I don't have time, ability, or energy to do this. So unfortunately I think I'm going to have to vote to end it.
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Post by Setsusa on Feb 7, 2014 12:53:46 GMT -8
Fos bunbuns 4 not being immune to everything not full of bunnies as previously assumed.
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Leif
Senior Chatterbox
Posts: 600
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Post by Leif on Feb 7, 2014 13:13:17 GMT -8
She could have tularemia. (That's the only rabbit disease I know, not a wish that Bunny has some horrible lagomorph transmitted death plague.)
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Post by Riku on Feb 7, 2014 15:03:07 GMT -8
I feel like although the long days do help relieve some pressure to post constantly, by the same token it also makes the game rather sluggish. In ROMS, things are inherently more talkative anyway because you're trying to convince other people to lynch the person you think is a rogue, whereas here you're just looking at what has happened and explaining your thoughts. There's not nearly as much trying to argue your point. So if things start to fall behind here, there's really nothing to talk about, and that puts us where we are now. Maybe this game mode is more suited to shorter days, or even a live game. I'm not sure.
I'm of the same opinion as Sets -- i'd be willing to keep going, but if enough people want to stop then that's probably best.
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Post by Marinated on Feb 7, 2014 18:45:37 GMT -8
I'm certainly interested in keeping on with the game, as long as most of us want to. If it's only five or six of us it's probably better to stop. Although I agree with what Riku has said. Perhaps we could shorten the Days a bit for the rest of the game.
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